by Caroline
(Note: Comments that stray into condemnation for people who either support or disagree with the prop will be deleted.)
So it looks like Prop 8 is going to pass. The Mormon church has successfully flexed its political muscles and has helped to eliminate the opportunity for certain people to marry. Yay. Way to go.
So where do we go from here? Not only are there now deep divisions within our wards, but there are also hurtful divisions now between us and our neighbors. I don’t know how it’s been in your area, but in mine it’s been pretty brutal. Pro 8 people making comments in Sunday School about how this issue was a way to separate the wheat from the tares within the Church, while sitting next to people they know full well are opponents of the proposition. People getting their temple recs pulled because of their opposition to Prop 8. (Since when did Prop 8 become a temple rec question? ) Mormon parents in leadership positions rejecting their children and refusing to speak to them because of the children’s disagreement on this political issue.
The wounds run deep within our Mormon community, and I’m afraid they run even deeper in that of our neighbors. Have you seen this youtube video called ‘Home Invasion’? It makes me ill to think that this is the way our neighbors now view us. View me.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28UwAyzUkE]
And here’s a clip from Jon Stewart about Mormon involvement in the proposition.
So how do we go about healing the rifts between us Mormons and our socially progressive neighbors who believe gay marriage is a civil right? Are we bound to become blacklisted and boycotted once again as our society shifts its thinking on this issue (think civil rights era when certain basketball teams would refuse to play BYU) ? What can we do to mediate the anger and hurt our neighbors feel because of our involvement in Prop 8, neighbors who want the legal protections of marriage as they raise their families?
I don’t have many answers, and I certainly don’t have much of a sphere of influence in my Mormon community. But I am the humanitarian director in my ward, and I’m toying with these ideas (which would probably get nixed by my leaders).
-organizing Mormons to participate in a local AIDS walk
- teaming up with a local gay friendly church to volunteer in our community – like doing a beach cleanup or a food drive
And on a more macro level, I’m sure hoping the Church will try to repair our reputation by getting involved in causes that are Christian and humanitarian and huge in scope. How about denouncing the genocide in Darfur and organizing to send tons of food and supplies to the victims and refugees there? How about designing a program where each stake or ward adopts a village in a struggling country and supplies it with food, clothes, and money? (I am well aware that the Church already does send some humanitarian aid around the world, but I’m looking for some new ideas and huge projects that could overwhelm the memory of our involvement in this last political season.)
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What are your ideas? How do we go about healing these wounds, both as a Church and as individuals?
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One of the things that Sara’s comments among others points to is the ethics of listening and to the place of the voice.
In internet debates, in private conversations, and in Church the idea that we need to listen to and be obedient to the Prophet has been repeated daily. Nothing unusual about that. In addition there is the idea that “our” beliefs mean that there are certain things that we do not need to do, or should not do.
The first idea, while being very common, is problematic because functionally what happens is that the call to listen to the voice of the prophet also functions as a call to not listen to the voice of the other. There is no impetus to listen to or learn about how gay and lesbian people describe their lives, experiences and relationships because our call to listen, the voice we are said to be responsible to, is that of the Prophet. Having listened to Church leaders there is nothing more to know. The voice of our leadership functionally eclipses the voice of the other and absolves us from responsibility to the other. Obviously for anyone who studies Christian (and Jewish) theology this is a huge problem. How is this ethical? and how can we revive the Jewish & Christian idea that we are indeed responsible to the other, that the call to listen to a Prophet in no way diminishes our responsibility for and need to listen to the other?
As far as our beliefs go, this seems to hit right at the core of what Caroline was responding to. As if to say that our duty is only to those who we are link to by beliefs and our duty when addressing the other is to defend ourselves. There are many reasons that Mormons think this way including our history, and our notion of Zion. But from an ethical point of view this kind of response is troubling if not indefensible.
One thing that could help us would be to broaden the notion of community. But in Mormon thought this is difficult. I am thinking of lesson 21 which I will be teaching in two weeks. At the time of the second coming there is a great deal of talk about the division between the righteous and the wicked. In Mormon thought I’m not sure that there is room for the idea of the righteous other, since so often the other, in their difference is understood to be aligned with the wicked from the start and righteousness is understood in terms of synthesis and unity etc. The idea of the righteous other seems to pose a serious challenge to Mormon theology, at least it would if it were taken seriously. So I think there are direct theological reasons why we need to try to work on what Caroline is addressing, and direct theological reasons why as a community we tend not to.
Caroline,
All I can say is that I’m really sad that the Church/members spent $20 million dollars on this. Just think of what $20 million dollars could do to combat poverty, disease, illiteracy, and so many other problems the world faces that are truly crises.
Thanks, everyone. Love your comments. Rachel, fantastic ideas. I’m inspired to type up a sheet like that right now.
Douglas, you have a knack for putting your finger on the issues, and in a kind a loving way. Well done. I need to be better at that.
Kirsten, Charleen, kat, everyone else who has commented, thanks so much for your input. I’m starting to feel less wounded and more hopeful about the situation.
The passing of Prop 8 and the election of Obama have caused me to think a lot about communal sin, guilt, and forgiveness. Even though I have been against Prop 8 from the beginning, I feel as if I am somehow guilty of it’s passing (similarly, though I never lived during the civil rights movements, not have ever felt I had ever had any active racism, seeing a black president gave me a huge sense of relief that I have somehow been forgiven of a sin we all had committed).
Just as the Church finally made amends for the wrongs committed at Mountain Meadows, I think that healing can truly only occur when we admit the wrongs our church has done in its involvement with Prop 8. Because the Church will probably not admit to any failings any time soon, I really believe it is us individual who must take on the sins of the many and begin asking forgiveness for those who knew not what they did.
You know what guys, there was money spent on both sides of the issue. The Church didn’t take away the word “marriage” from gay unions, the voice of the people did. I can’t speak for God; I just personally feel that gay sexual relationships are wrong. There I said it. It’s just my personal belief regardless what the Bible says.
Everyone has the right, no the obligation, to vote what they believe. And the majority of people feel the way I do. I am sorry for those who will be affected by this vote, but I am also tired of the skewed view that a minority (read also the liberal media!) continues to push on the majority. To gays, I say what the majority says, live your lives, leave marriage alone.
I listened to a NPR program today in which people were reflecting on the general call to service that this election has raised. Apparently Obama wants to continue to utilize the ground structure he used in his grassroots campaign. It made me think about how service could heal the nation.
The commentator spoke about how 9-11 could have been a call to service but was rather a call to give money. A call to consumerism. To move forward like nothing had happened.
I hope that we as a church and a country will move forward in the call to service.
For members of the church, perhaps it will heal hearts in respect to this issue.
But may I also say – it is incredible to see the anger. It is a hard week to be a Mormon. To cross picket lines at the temple. They say we (as well as other faiths) may have to cross picket lines to go to church.
The craziness in LA really makes my heart sink again. Although, I believe the mass is critical to induce change – it comes with so many misgivings … I would have rather the church come out and back separation of church and state and have a measure to grant civil unions to all (although I don’t think that would have had the fire to pass). Because this battle is going to be a long one with a lot of emotions.
At the end of my yoga practice tonight, my emotions released. I sobbed in a room of people I didn’t know.
Prop 8 is an injustice and I pray that the legal process will go quickly.
I’m waiting for someone to bring up the psychoanalysis (at the very least) of human sexuality & its gracious multiplicities.
Then, I feel, we can begin to see more genuinely into ‘healing’, & more importantly into ‘loving’.
Debating the legislature & the ‘who-funded-who’ are mere afterthoughts (apparently chasmically divisive & crass -this world will pursue these modes to no end). So far, that is what the need has been, at least on this particular forum.
The Church really is already involved in the sort of massive humanitarian projects you describe. It’s donated nearly 1 billion dollars over the past 20 years to humanitarian aid.
Marriage between man and woman is God’s law. That is all. If everyone who voted for Obama had voted “NO” it would have never passed. Until the community sees that it is not only the LDS church who was in support of Prop 8, this will never end. The LDS church is an easy target, no one wants to admit that their church spent money on yes to prop 8. (catholic, baptist, jewish, etc.)
I have decided that I will love my neighbors, love my family, we just don’t agree on everything.
Marnie, may I kindly ask you what you mean by God’s law?
Just a reminder that the humanitarian aid program did not start until the year of 1985. Like the PEF program the money used is off the interest earned , not the balance. That is how the program grows.
Remember too in early church history, the church was mired in debt. IT was not until the mid 1980′s that the building and temple funds were abolished and the money from tithing is used in their construction.
As the church has grown the manner in which humanitarian aid has adapted as well. Programs to teach Neonatal resucitation, vision programs, the programs to build wells in communities are expanding. PEF was started to provide money for the education of people in other countries, so they then can move back home and help out their communities.
We need to look beyond dollar amounts to see what is occuring.
One thing I would like to see more of, that could go with PEF would be microloans to women in other countries.
These small loans to help them get started in a small business has been a great idea to help women earn money for their families. Just the investment in a sewing machine has helped more than can be imagined.
I don’t mean to be a buzzkill, but I’m not sure that we can heal the wounds. It’s almost like suggesting that the hunter should dress the wounds of the deer he just shot.
I think what you are asking is how do we convey our values of love and connection in the face of a decision/stance that in your eyes (and mine) conveys the complete opposite.
My view is that church administers myriad acts of relevant, effective service in the world – but, we keep it hush-hush. Rather, what gets communicated publicly about Mormons is our “creed culture.” Unfortunately, creeds rarely have long term cultural impact on producing moral behavior, but rather end up shaming individuals who do not live up to the standard. Anyway, caring vs. creed education is another topic…
The church, in its latest official comment
on Prop. 8 said that they were for (limited)
civil unions. In 2004, Prop. 3 disallowed any
sort of civil union for single sex couples. I
think that repealing prop. 3 and allowing civil
unions in Utah would go a long way to healing
these wounds, because a positive step would be
taken for gay couples.
Prop. 3 in Utah. It’s a start.
I don’t think there IS a way to “heal the rift” as long as Mormons still think in terms of “us” and “them” (“them” being “our socially progressive neighbors who believe gay marriage is a civil right”).
What would you say if a powerful lobby made it illegal to, say, attend the temple and then asked how to heal the rift between them and “socially conservative neighbors who believe attending the temple is a civil right”?
Until Mormons realize the mindset IS the problem, the rift remains.
I haven’t had the time to read all the comments, but I wanted to share what I just read in the Church’s official statement on the issue here:
So, how to heal the breach? Continue to treat everyone, no matter their religious affiliation, political beliefs, race, creed, whatever, as children of God worthy of our love and respect. It may be that people still take offense at our position (whatever that position is, for or against gay marriage), but the only way we’ll have a better society is by being better people. We can’t control others, but we can control ourselves, you know?
In terms of pragmatic ideas regarding healing. I think learning and listening are essential. I know of two short films that might be helpful in this regard. A friend of mine made a film called Voices of Witness which features stories of faith from Gays and Lesbians in the Episcopal Church. Last week I just finished a short doc called The Constant Process which is about the life and spiritual journey of Susan Russell who is a lesbian priest and human rights activist.
For liberal and moderate Mormons screening and discussing these films and the experiences of the people in them may provide an interesting opportunity for dialogue. One of the things that is simply not talked about in the Mormon context is the spiritual lives and personal experiences of gay folks. So. if anyone might be interested in doing a small group activity around either film let me know.
Also for anyone in the Chicago area. The Constant Process will be screening on 11/15 in the shorts program at the 27th annual Chicago Lesbian and Gay International Film Festival.
You are asked by the bishop if you are
affilated or support anything contrary to the
teaching of the gospel. So I can see why a
temple recommend would be taken away if you
supported no on prop 8.
kris,
elder whitney clayton of the seventy, who was prominently involved in the prop. 8 campaign, clearly stated on multiple occasions that members of the church could vote against the proposition without jeopardizing their good standing in the church in any way.
my stake president signed my temple recommend in the same interview during which i informed him that i not only disagreed with the church’s stance on prop. 8, but that i would vote against it. he had no problem with my being opposed to the church on the issue, and continued to have no problem with it throughout the entire campaign. and he’s pretty tight with SLC leadership on this issue, since he’s elder clayton’s brother.
so i’ll say it again. opposing prop. 8 has ***nothing*** to do with one’s temple recommend. and it is the unfortunate and completely inexcusable consequence of the church’s/church leadership’s actions that there are people who may have lost their recommends–or who have even simply had their worthiness to hold those recommends questioned–because of opposition to prop. 8. shame on our leaders. shame on them. they should have known better. they should have given more explicit instruction to make sure that *everyone* involved knew better than to make such inexcusable assumptions about other church members’ worthiness. i thought they were smarter than that. not to mention being “inspired.”
I think some of your ideas for initiating healing are wise, and some things ought to be done to continue to show love for people, no matter what their background.
Unfortunately, I also agree with some of the comments posted here, as well as the Church’s official release:
“Most likely, the election results for these constitutional amendments will not mean an end to the debate over same-sex marriage in this country.”
I think I understand well the motives behind our apostles’ conviction on why marriage needs to be defined between a man and a woman. I’m not trying to defy your stipulation that comments not take sides, which I’m not arguing for. Rather, I’m just stating that it is clear to me why the Church has taken this stand on this issue — and not, say, Darfur, as completely important an issue that is. I promise, I’m not trying to stir up debate. This is just a personal expression.
After watching the explosion of anger from the gay community after the passing of Proposition 8, I think some of the initial signs are clear. It shows how far we’ve come in this country with our attitudes over homosexual issues.
I’m not trying to be trite or say anything in spite. I truly do long for healing. And I think some of your ideas are really valuable and we ought to spend as much of our energy also looking for ways to reach out and “love our enemies,” to borrow a Jesus saying.
That said, I think this will end up being one of the most defining issues of our time, not only for society, but for the Church, at least in a historical perspective, until Christ comes. The Proclamation on the Family more than intimates at such things.
On a related note, I FULLY agree that disagreement with Prop. 8 and disagreement with Church leaders and a vote “no” on Prop. 8 ought to have NO bearing on receiving a temple recommend.
What I *do* think, and something that I have not heard many people articulate, is that when we more specifically condemn vocally, out in public, or call out and say (again, specifically) that our Church leaders are “in the wrong,” or anything of this ilk, that this is the sort of statement that leans much closer to apostasy, and *does* have bearing on temple recommend questions that ask if you support/sustain your leaders. Disagreement I think is fine, even vocalized in a way that represents your opinion on matters. Calling into question the prophets authority to act on such matters is another matter.
I’m not questioning or judging ANYONE in this forum or any other on that standard, to be clear. But I do think it’s an important distinction that has not been talked about much. It really stems around the broader question: how much do you trust your prophets in this matter?
I think the bottom line here is that whatever your stance on the issue, our prophet, a man called of god, a man who we believe converses and relays information from God to us, asked us to vote in a specific way. There must have been a reason for this request whether we know what it is now or understand why. This is what he asked of us. One of the questions to obtain a temple recommend is if you sustain the current prophet. Perhaps in not agreeing with the request from our current prophet some members felt they did not sustain him and this is why they could not continue holding a temple recommend.
actually, kd, the prophet did **not** ask us to vote in a specific way. in fact, the church leadership clings to the defense that they didn’t tell us how to vote, but instead just urged us to do what we could.
however, your simple reduction of the first presidency’s letter to telling us how to vote does a wonderful job of illustrating the problem i have with the church’s involvement in this matter. no matter how much the first presidency or the institutional church attempts to allow for dissenting views, the fact is that mormon culture translates the prophet’s words into commands. and then, when someone is perceived as not obeying those commands, mormons enforce them through social means–primarily through relationships which become distant or even broken. i find it disgusting. so much so that i’m not sure that i can continue to affiliate myself with the church through regular practice, no matter how much i believe its doctrinal teachings. because i think this kind of cultural climate works directly *against* the church’s doctrine. or rather the doctrine of christ.
i would be happy if the church spent all of its time and energy teaching simple principles–the principles of christ’s gospel. love. compassion. mercy. kindness. honesty. doing unto others as we would have done unto ourselves. those things are hard enough. do we really need to embroil ourselves in divisive political battles which will only undercut those simple virtues? is it not enough to teach correct principles and then let each individual govern herself according to her own conscience? that seems good enough to me. but apparently it’s not good enough for church leadership.
Amelia, that is too bad that you don’t want to associate with the church anymore. So you think the First Presidency was in the wrong for writing a letter asking us to stand for truth and righteousness eh? Well, may I ask, did you pray about this matter? Did you find out for yourself if voting YES on 8 was what the Lord wanted? I did. I prayed and fasted, and my answer was overwhelmingly that I needed to support and vote Yes on 8. Therefore I did. And as for teaching compassion, honesty, kindness, ect ect… those things never were not taught during this whole thing. Before every meeting that we had, we prayed for compassion and kindness towards those that are flat out threatening us. I was very sad knowing that if the law passed, many would be hurt and saddened. But, a person HAS to stand for truth and righteousness, no matter what. When a person is intuned with what our Father asks of us, of course we are going to hurt people’s feelings. That’s just how it goes. And who has broken relationships off because of the way they voted? Only people full of hatred and Satan. I haven’t broken any relations with any of my gay friends. We respect one another’s opinions and we know we each have to stand for what we feel is right. The church has nothing to do with one’s weaknesses. And a whole church shouldn’t be judged on someone’s actions that go to that church. When I was part of rallies and walks and calling, there was never ill or contentious feelings on our side. My neighbor is a lesbian and she is ticked at us and threatened me that I better watch my back. So am I to judge all gays are like that just because one is? Are you only going to church because of the people? Is your testimony of the doctrine and the gospel of Jesus Christ based on the people? If so, please, please think about it. If I judged my testimony on the people of the church, I would’ve left along time ago. I’ve been offended, teased, gossiped about, but I don’t care. I know who I am, and who I represent, and I’m not going to let someone ruin my salvation by letting myself be offended by them and retaliate by not going to church. I just don’t want you to make a big mistake in not attending anymore because of silly things like this. Seriously, if you ever need anything or want to chat, email me. i usually don’t put my email out like this, but I’m willing to in this case. Your salvation is more important to me than people sending me spam…
jbmacsta@gmail.com I’m always here if you need to vent. Aight?
for now all i’m going to say is wow. just wow. and tomorrow, when i have the energy, i’ll explain to you–brittney and anyone else who doesn’t understand–why your comment lacks compassion and kindness in spite of your offer to receive my venting.
Brittney:
A question for you. How would you feel if an large organization used all of its power and influence to take away your right to marry? And if you are married, how would you feel if that marriage would soon be annulled because your neighbors voted to take your civil rights away? Just think about it for a minute.
And would you then feel that that organization was doing something ‘christ-like’ and compassionate?
And…please don’t question Amelia’s righteousness or that of anyone else on this site. Such writings are not only unkind, but also violate our comment policy. Further comments in this vein will be deleted.
Another question: How would you feel if large organizations sought to take away your freedom of religion? To turn a core religious belief into discrimination and hate? To punish you for participating in a democratic election?
I have grown weary of people saying that the Church should be Christlike and compassionate. It is. Christ loves everyone, yes, but he does not support actions contrary to the Gospel.
It is actually the “no” side that could take a few Christian lessons. They’ve already tried to hurt my husband’s career because he donated money.
Kate:
That must be really hard for you and your husband–that he donated money to a cause that you believed in and now it’s threatening his career. I suspect that many LDS members are surprised by this backlash, given that few have engaged in the political arena like this before. I’m curious….do you or your husband have any regrets about your donation(s)?
I am sure that the Lord and/or the prophet knew that members would be targets of this anger and yet thought it well-worth the risk to encourage members to donate anyways. Do you think the prophet should have included a warning about this in the materials urging members to donate in support of the Prop?
i’m not going to respond in much detail to brittney’s comment from last night. but i do want to say a couple of things. i want to ask people to have enough imagination that they can think outside their own minds and perspectives for a moment. recognize that this is not just a “silly” matter. for anyone. contemplate the ramifications of first assaulting another person’s worthiness and then offering alleged concern for her soul and salvation. consider the wisdom of believing that a single comment (or even half a dozen) on the internet is enough insight into another person’s heart and soul to justify condemning them, even in the interest of protecting their salvation.
this kind of behavior happens at church and as a result of mormon culture and attitudes all the time. and i am just so tired because of it. i acknowledge my own responsibility. i recognize that i need to focus on being charitable and compassionate in how i understand others at church. i try, all the time, to extend the benefit of the doubt. but i am just so tired–so tired of trying to make excuses, to explain, to justify behavior that destroys my peace of mind and of conscience. and i am tired of having more mainstream mormons not extend the same courtesy in return but, instead, leap to conclusions about my worthiness, my beliefs, and my character. this is a two-way street. i should not have to make all the accommodations in order to exist peacefully at church. i should not have to sacrifice my conscience in order to not have my worthiness challenged on a regular basis. i should be able to live a life of conscience without everyone from perfect strangers to my immediate family telling me why i’m following satan.
last night i listened to a review of a recent documentary about lee atwater. while concluding, the reviewer made the comment that atwater discovered that it’s not who we (think we) are but what we actually do that matters. and that is the place i am in. it’s not who we (think we) are as mormons, but what we actually do. it’s not who i (think i) am, but what i actually do. and that–not some silliness or my petty hang-ups about other people–is the source of my wondering whether i can continue to affiliate myself through practice with mormonism.
what good is my life if i do not *do* what i know to be good and true? if practicing mormonism prevents me from doing that, i will not practice mormonism. and i think god understands. i don’t think it jeopardizes my salvation. because ultimately salvation is also about what we *do*; it’s not about who we (or others) think we are.
I didn’t get my recommend taken away, but both my husband and I have been released from our callings here in Utah and asked not to pray in the ward publicly or bare our testimonies since we spoke out in early July in protest against prop8. The decision we have come to is to forfeit our temple recommends temporarally, and use our tithing money to help and serve those we know are hurting and in need. In August we helped a young 32 year old widower bury her husband. We purchased canned goods for our local food shelter. This month we supported a young sister missionary who has undergone a brain tumor operation while in the mission field. The thought of our tithing money being used to pay the salaries of church positions that support prop8, which has splintered my family, and then being asked to remain silent by our Stake President has moved us to seek local humanitarian opportunities for now!
Luckily, his career should be just fine. And to answer your question, neither of us regrets the donation. I also don’t think a warning was needed. We felt it was the right thing to do, so we did it.
The fact that people interpret that donation as anti-gay and uneducated and worth punishment is troubling. If roles were reversed, there would be a huge outcry and deservedly so.
I’m sad that the rights I want to protect are at odds with rights others want to save, but it’s not going to prevent me from doing and thinking what I believe is right.
I kind of stumbled on this blog while preparing a lesson, so I wasn’t planning on getting sucked into more Prop 8 stuff. I just really hope things settle down, so we can start hearing each other again and not angrily judging.
Amelia,
I’ve read your last comment several times, and I have so much empathy for what you are experiencing. I admit that I don’t have a good or helpful reply but here are a couple of thoughts in solidarity anyway.
The thing about prop 8 is that it revealed aspects of Mormon culture that I had never seen played out before in a pragmatic way. It was really chilling to see how eager many in our community were to divide, to accuse, to question faith, etc. Clearly there was a complex blend of group think, authoritarianism, and kinder gentler homophobia at work in a lot of what went on. It is indeed hard to get past that.
You write:
“i should not have to make all the accommodations in order to exist peacefully at church. i should not have to sacrifice my conscience in order to not have my worthiness challenged on a regular basis. i should be able to live a life of conscience without everyone from perfect strangers to my immediate family telling me why i’m following satan.”
As far as I can tell the truth is that within the walls of our wards and in conversation within our faith community we do need to make all the accommodations. Yes it’s wrong but I’m not sure the language exists that could help a certain type of Mormon understand another type of Mormon, or even if that language did exist I doubt that the will to understand exists either.
On the other hand there is a tremendous amount of good that can be done out in the larger world. After an event on Saturday I was approached by a woman who had a lot of anger towards the pro 8 side (Mormon’s in particular) she was shocked to see a Mormon who was against prop 8. We talked for a while and the source of her anger came into focus as she described a relative who just a few days ago told her that her 18 year old gay son is possessed by demons and that’s why he is gay. With tears coming to her eyes this woman asked “Where was she (the relative) the night my son stood in the Kitchen holding a knife to his wrist, wanting to kill himself because there is no place in the world for him? Where was she then?!” This woman’s anger and hurt and love for her son were laid bare in these comments.
All this is to say that, there is a sense that despite all the discomfort at Church, despite being accused, despite biting one’s tongue in the face of many thoughtless comments, despite these things, having the opportunity to listen to and support that woman, and many other people like her, makes dealing with what goes on at church easier. We are in a time of healing a time where empathy and human connection are more necessary than ever. You are right that it is about what we do.
thank you for your comment, douglas. you are right that we need to hear each other. and i do try. i hope that somehow i’m able to find space to continue hearing the people i know and love at church. it’s just that i hurt so very much right now that i’m not sure i can. so i just try to do what seems right to me and hope that ultimately that will be enough.
thanks, and don’t take my emphasis on listening as in any way as suggesting that listening is more important than individual healing. I’m trying to make listening part of healing. If you, or I, or anyone else can’t find the healing they need, then the long term result will probably be people leaving the Church, which should not happen.
There is an interesting article in the New York Times regarding Prop 8 Donors. A site has overlayed contributions with a google map. I definitely have issues with the premise – as it can be used for grounds of harassment.
However, what has floored me is the number of names I recognize from the Mormon world. I know people in several local wards, have interacted with leadership of two stakes, and worked at the temple. And there are names that just seem Mormon. The leadership in particular seems to be the larger donors.
There is of course the obvious lack of certain donors (and it is far from a map of local wards and stakes, although it would be cool to use this technology for that). But I am just floored by the observation and am wondering if anyone has any comments in regards.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/business/08stream.html?em
http://www.eightmaps.com/